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God wants not only to save us from sin’s destruction; he’s also determined to transform us, restore us, and use us—rehab us—to reveal the coming of his kingdom right here, right now.

Brandon Hatmaker, a host and guest judge for HGTV and DIY Network, knows what it takes to rehab a home. As a pastor, he has an even greater understanding of what it takes to rehab an everyday anemic spiritual life. In his new book he explores eight essentials of Christianity—the gospel, identity, Scripture, discipleship, kingdom, mission, community, and justice.

Bible Gateway interviewed Brandon Hatmaker (@brandonhatmaker) about his book, A Mile Wide: Trading a Shallow Religion for a Deeper Faith (Thomas Nelson, 2016).

[Does your faith need a rehab? Learn more about, and sign up for, the Bible Gateway 7-day free email devotional by Brandon Hatmaker: Seven Days to a Deeper Faith]

What’s the meaning behind the title of your book?

Brandon Hatmaker: Recently the phrase “A mile wide, an inch deep” has been used to describe the modern church and, even more indicting, those who call themselves believers. As someone who has spent more than 20 years in local church leadership, this kills me.

Critics claim that as our churches continue to grow in size they lack in depth, that our programs and events are becoming more and more broad but only skim the surface of truth, and that most believers don’t actually live what they say they believe.

As much as I don’t want to admit it, there are elements of these accusations that ring true. From the beginning believers have struggled between shallow religion and deeper faith. In a twist of irony, it can be just as common for believers to find ourselves slipping into religious legalism as it is to find ourselves living like Jesus actually lived. The book A Mile Wide< reframes the way we look at eight key areas of faith helping us move from just doing church to actually being the church. Along the way we’ll find fullness, freedom, and I think the world will find more hope in the church they see.

How is choosing sides and having checklists forms of shallow religion?

Brandon Hatmaker: It’s easier to do the minimum requirements than it is to dig for something deeper. The problem is that checked lists and forming allies is more likely to be about feeling good about ourselves or being right than it is finding truth. We’re actually fooling ourselves thinking the checklists will result in anything fulfililng. This just may be our life-long struggle. It’s the difference between flesh and spirit. The best thing we can do is have the conversation; point out our shortcomings; and move forward together.

What is spiritual FOMO?

Brandon Hatmaker: In the book I talk about finding our Gospel Identity. One of the ways I bring it up is talking about the “fear of missing out” spiritually. I think most of us have this.

Spiritual FOMO is intrinsically a good thing. We’re wired to crave more of God. So when we feel like something is missing, it triggers a response that says, “Hey, whatever it is that I’m experiencing . . . it’s not enough. There’s something else.” And there probably is. Like most things, our desire for “more” typically comes from either a healthy or unhealthy place. Some of us have a healthy desire to know him more. We’ve “tasted and seen,” and it’s changed everything. We’ve experienced firsthand the fullness of Christ and want more. But some of us want more, because we’re at the end of ourselves. We find ourselves in this place out of the pangs of spiritual malnutrition. Maybe we’ve felt fullness before, but we’re not feeling it now. We’re scraping by each day hearing about the feast but rarely dining at the table.

The reason for our craving typically determines our response. Ironically, the bigger the void, the more desperately we search and the more likely we are to find substance. There’s an emptiness we must experience in order to strip ourselves of all earthly recovery. It’s a place where the only option is whatever God provides. It’s a pure place. A necessary place.

On the flip side, for those of us who’ve encountered Jesus deeply, when we’re hungry for more, we tend to return to the same table we’ve already experienced. We add another Bible study, attend a new small group, start a new accountability group, or attend another worship service. We’re doing more of the same things expecting different results. Like a hamster on a wheel, we’re working harder but not going any further. We’re hoping to create new depth, but instead we end up spreading ourselves thin, finding ourselves a mile wide and an inch deep. I write about three key areas in which we’re designed for more depth that will actually fight this phenomenon.

How can Christians be biblically shallow and why is that dangerous?

Brandon Hatmaker: Scripture is truth. Too many times we depend upon handed down spirituality. That can fall short in a couple different ways. First, what we’ve been told might be wrong. How can we know if we don’t study for ourselves? Second, we might even be right but lack the confidence that Scripture brings. It’s always good to press into Scripture. It brings conviction and confidence. We’ll trust that it’ll lead us to a fuller, more purposeful and fulfilling life.

What do you mean when you write, “Jesus didn’t want fans; he wanted followers”?

Brandon Hatmaker: The disciples pretty much asked Jesus to make things simple. They wanted to make it easier. But Jesus knew something they didn’t. This kingdom would come at an incredible cost. Presenting it as a low-hanging fruit might net way more early adopters who liked the advantages, but that kingdom would lack depth. And the early church had to be supernaturally strong to endure the next century without caving. The true gospel has never appealed to the masses, nor did it ever try to. Yes, this kingdom will save your whole life, but you have to lose the one you have first. There is no resurrection without a death.

There’s a danger in attempting to widen the front door that Jesus said would always be narrow. It’s not narrow because God wants to keep people out. It’s narrow because so few are actually willing to bend low enough to enter. Jesus taught the kingdom in a way that made sincere converts work for it. He drew them with depth and mystery and truth. Here we see a mysterious partnership between God’s sovereign preparation of our hearts—making us able to hear and understand—and our personal responsibility to be a good hearer; to address the soil of our hearts.

What do you mean by a “bigger gospel”?

Brandon Hatmaker: I remember driving back to Colorado for the first time as an adult. The house I grew up in, my high school, and even the town seemed smaller than I remembered. The mountains, however, seemed bigger than life. I was actually in awe seeing them again.

The mountains, obviously, hadn’t grown. Why had my view of them changed so drastically? Maybe I had grown numb to them over the years as a child. Maybe a more traveled perspective helped me appreciate their uniqueness. Or maybe that’s just what happens when you live in Texas. The Texas hill country doesn’t quite compare to the Rocky Mountains.

Likewise, our faith changes as we grow. Some things that used to be a big deal to me no longer are. Thank goodness. Many things, I know, stay the same, but it’s the gospel that continues to grow in my mind. It’s the gospel that seems most like those mountains. The gospel doesn’t actually change. We do. Our perspectives naturally shift with life experience, they shift with maturity, and they shift when we return with a greater desire for truth.

As a younger believer, my gospel was too small. As beautiful as it was, my gospel experience was fairly one-dimensional. Therefore, my gospel had remained fairly one-dimensional. My gospel saved me but I pretty much put it on the shelf from there thinking I had to tough it out the rest of my Christian life. But the same gospel that saves us continues to work in our lives to transform us and restore us. That same gospel not only works in us but eventually works through us. Our view of the gospel impacts everything, and I’ve come to realize that most of my spiritual shortfalls, my angst with church culture, and my struggles to find true significance in the kingdom comes from that same myopic place.

How does recognizing a new identity in Christ dispel fear?

Brandon Hatmaker: It’s uncanny how we allow fear to seep in. Fear of failure. Fear of change. Fear of being found out. Fear of being misunderstood. Fear of judgment. It’s good to remember that God is no stranger to to the response of fear. Throughout Scripture, whenever God revealed himself directly to his people, either as an angel of the Lord or as Jesus himself, the people’s first reaction was terror. There was something about experiencing the true presence of God that was incredibly revealing and confronting.

God’s response every time: “Fear not.” From there he would explain why. Fear not, for I am with you. Fear not, for I am your God. Fear not, for I will strengthen you and I will help you. Fear not, for I bring you great news.

In order to take our gospel identity seriously, we have to stop fearing our inabilities and start believing in God’s ability; that he’s with us and that he’s for us; that his view of us and our circumstances is more expansive than ours. This has nothing to do with what we can accomplish; it has everything to do with what we can surrender. When we truly find ourselves in Christ, we can have confidence in his love, his grace, and our future.

Bio: Brandon is an author, biker, humanitarian, TV personality, and a huge fan of the underdog. He’s founder and managing partner of The Legacy Collective, a giving community focused on partnering, pioneering, and funding sustainable solutions to systemic social issues around the world. He co-stars in the HGTV and DIY Network series “My Big Family Renovation” and has had various guest appearances on other HGTV shows (Brother v.s. Brother, Tiny House Arrest). Brandon is author of A Mile Wide: Trading a Shallow Religion for a Deeper Faith and Barefoot Church: Serving the Least in a Consumer Culture. He’s married to New York Times bestselling author and speaker, Jen Hatmaker.